Curse

tenshi_strife · Sep 27, 2007, 02:17 AM // 02:17

you wanna know the best way to see what gw would be like if we removed heros? look at EVERY SINGLE OTHER RPG!!!! gw is VERY innovative with heros, and i love them. without heros and henchmen i dont think i would play gw cause these "vile heros" provide a way to actually PLAY the game not sit in town saying "LFG" or "GLF" a million times -.-, why dont we just make a LFG simulator, no game just a big chat room where you yell lfg, im sure you would love that.

if you didnt notice /notsigned.

gremlin · Sep 27, 2007, 03:25 AM // 03:25

What's the problem ?

This game has no henchemen - if you don't hire them

No heroes - if you don't take them

No other players online - if you don't interact with them.

But most importantly all of the above if you want them.

So again I ask what's the problem ? play the game how you like and let others play it the way they like.

personally I play with and without players with and without my guild and alliance friends.
It all depends on what I am trying to achieve in the game.

Zahr Dalsk · Sep 27, 2007, 04:38 AM // 04:38

You want heroes gone? You want to RUIN my gaming experience and those of a large portion of Guild Wars players just because you don't like heroes? Even when they're OPTIONAL?

You're trying to ruin our experience out of pure spite. When it will not benefit you at all. When all it will do is make all of us H/H players quit.

/NOT SIGNED

BlackSephir · Sep 27, 2007, 05:43 AM // 05:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer_Of_Vulpes

I AGREE!!!! heroes are gay, they make nobody want to play together, and people are forgetting this is a CORPG / MMORPG and i almost never see people teaming anymore.

if i could have it my way i would have them shut off al the NF and factions servers and FORCE EVERYONE TO LOVE TYRIA AGAIN!

Best. Troll. Ever.

wetsparks · Sep 27, 2007, 06:32 AM // 06:32

This thread is probably an ill conceived joke. But I don't see anyone laughing.
Also, Archer_Of_Vulpes, you really need to chill. Wherever I go all I see is wts/wtb/lfg/glf.

Div · Sep 27, 2007, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Great story, but don't worry. I'll always take Cynn and Mhenlo with me, at least in GWEN...

Hippie Bane · Sep 27, 2007, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Ah, Alesia, lest you forget, you accompanied me on many of my adventures. Remember when I had to bring two run skills just to be able to get far enough ahead of you, just to aggro the groups first? You and your enthusiasm! You and your zest for Restore Life while our companions fell! You and your desire to wand every monster to death from Ascalon to Droknor's Forge while standing half an aggro bubble in front of the fellows with more substantial armor than tattoos and clothes. I chalked up your...quirks to simple youthful exuberance.

Then I brought some other monks along. These folks would spam heal party as a solution to one player taking damage. Warriors with a full bar of heal skills abounded at every turn. I was lucky enough to be taken under the wing of a guild who had noticed these same things and we resolved to always help each other whenever we could, and to never, ever suck.

Lo, the cruel gods of work, school, and relationships, not to mention basic human fatigue endurance, conspired to ensure that the small band of skilled players I called my friends were not always around, and I wept. But wait! We can band together with other groups of like minded people, and continue our goal of not sucking. But no, my dream was stillborn and some huge egos, along with an alliance chat full of racist jokes and trade spam, forced us to once again go it alone.

So to recap, we have players with no skill and bad skills, henchmen with weak AI and lame skillsets, and armies of players who think that Healer's Boon and Divine Boon shall be run in tandem.

Then, in a rare stroke of wisdom, we were given Heroes. Now, the only excuse for them being lousy was our own inherent suck factor. No more of Orion's firestorm parties. No more Alesia spamming Healing Breeze around groups of Mesmers. I can decide that I want to run a ZB monk with a Grenth's Balance Warrior and as soon as I can place the skills, it is done. It pains me to say it, but Necro Heroes are better MM's than at least 98% of human MMs, myself included. The warrior AI leaves something to be desired, but in terms of sheer damage output, they leave Healing Hands wammos right where they belong, back in AED 1, spamming LFG and blind inviting the whole town.

My last point is this. Despite losing drops, a percentage of money and having to pay to outfit them, players would rather bring heroes than PUG. Players would rather risk a firestorm party than risk the 95% chance that this player or players will be bad. I do not want to waste my two hours a day trying to help a player who doesn't know he needs help and will insult me for doing so.

Rurik, you are very patient to listen to me and my ramblings. Or maybe it's because you are dead. I distinctly remember killing you at least 4 times. Okay, there was the fifth time when you ran ahead and I chose to not heal you.

Hyper.nl · Sep 27, 2007, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Hm, I would vote for a full hero party, but I guess it's the wrong thread.

So, I'm afraid it's /notsigned for me.

Heroes rock.

..L.. · Sep 27, 2007, 08:09 AM // 08:09

I hate doing missions, primairy quests alone, I just cant be bothered to do everything with heroes/henches. Id prefer them gone but I doubt they would ever do that. I prefer the failing pug over the succesfull heroes.

Etta · Sep 27, 2007, 08:09 AM // 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archer_Of_Vulpes

I AGREE!!!! heroes are gay, they make nobody want to play together, and people are forgetting this is a CORPG / MMORPG and i almost never see people teaming anymore.

if i could have it my way i would have them shut off al the NF and factions servers and FORCE EVERYONE TO LOVE TYRIA AGAIN!

Translation: I have no one to play with so I QQ.

/signed for 7 Heroes.

bilateralrope · Sep 27, 2007, 08:11 AM // 08:11

A RPG themed suggestion post is a bad idea as it hides the reasons behind the suggestion. So if you have any good reasons in there, please separate them from your OP.

Also remember that the heroes were one of the things ANET advertised as being special about Nightfall. So if ANET removes them they instantly run into trouble with various false advertising laws in various countries. I don't know about other countries, but here in New Zealand they do get enforced. So regardless of how much the players want them removed, ANET's lawyers will advise strongly against it.

So even if I supported this idea I don't see any way in which ANET could legally implement it.

BlackSephir · Sep 27, 2007, 09:42 AM // 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by ..L..

I hate doing missions, primairy quests alone, I just cant be bothered to do everything with heroes/henches. Id prefer them gone but I doubt they would ever do that. I prefer the failing pug over the succesfull heroes.

Haha, what makes you think that people who are already running h/h team would team up if heroes would be removed? That's just 3 henchies more.
Still, 1 player + 7 henchies > most PUGs

Phoenix Tears · Sep 27, 2007, 10:42 AM // 10:42

totally against it.

other way: want 7 heroes and sign on the other petition, which got "naturally" closed, only because gaile denied it on an other forum -.-

Best way to give this game again balanced gameplay for pve... this game was never an MMO, and it will be never one, its more like an MMO-Offline Game when you look at the mentalility of the gamers.
No one wants to play with others, unless you get forced by anet to do ...

This should get the developers finally into their brains ....

LET THE PLAYERS DECIDE, HOW THEY WANT TO PLAY YOUR GAME, WE'VE PAYED THE GAME(S), SO WANT WE AS PLAYERS DECIDE, IF WE WANT PLAY WITH A FULL PUG, OR WITH 7 HEROES !!!

Anet acts in this point like a dictator, like "We've made the game, so we will tell you all, how you have to play it, and their arguments why we don#t should have 7 Heroes are all dumb bad jokes.

7 Hero parties are not imbalanced, any 7 Pug party can play better then 1 player with 7 Heroes, even 2 Plyers with 6 heroes or 4 players with 4 heroes are better, then a 7 hero team ...

Anet does nothing about the loss of players in the old campaigns, which means, that certain regions of the game are over months now perma empty, because no players are there anymore, find there a full pug party and you can search for months ingame, anet has even the problem that the new dungeions are simple too uninteresting, that you have to search for certain of them for weeks to find a full pug, what was in the SPE total different, there wanted everyone make dungeons, there was a total hype on dungeons, because players couldn't know there, how imba the dungeons are and how stupid and cheap the rewards are, that making the dungeons is totally not worth the effort and stress.

Anet says, 7 hero parties would overfill the interface, god how stupid are they, they give us the opportunity to show 3 skill bars, so simple limitate this shit on 3 bars and finish ...no player wil have ever the need, to see all 7 skill bars of their heroes, 3 bars are enough and the player will ever open only the 3 of the 3 heroes, which the player needs IN THE GOD DAMN MOMENT, and when the player needs a bar not anymore - click click- bar away and an other of an other hero will be opened ... come on, when the developers didn't thought on this little point, then I must ask me really, if they had used their brains for 2 cents before anytime oO
When they would make 7 hero parties, this wouldn't mean, that the game is coming to its end from day A to B, players which want to make stuff then with real players, will make the stuff then with their Guild Mates, so simple, for that are PvE guilds there !!!!!! to play parts of the PvE game with your guild mates, and not with heroes, when your in a pve guild, but play still everything with heroes and henchs only, i must ask me, what such players search thenin a PvE guild, when they make nothing with their guild mates together....

there are enough other reasons for 7 hero parties and arguments, which let anets arguments look like cheap jokes, but they were all said here or on other forums, but Anet simple ignores them, like they ignore the community in last time in overall, when the community don't likes a change of them and goes then on the barricades, then they sent ever out only their games mascot called "Gaile" which will hear then ever only a bit onto that, what the Com has to tell, says then ever soem stuff about things she doesn't know, but will ask for with the result, that the com gets in the end totally ignored and going on the barricades was a total waste of time ...

Anet is like a dictator, that don't understands, that also dictators can make heavy failures and when the dictator gets frontated with their made failures, then the dictator simple kneels all down with ignorance as says to hisself "I'm unfailable"

Now is only the challenge in finding the best solution, because the community is splitted in 2 solutions:

Allow 7 Hero Parties or No Heroes anymore

Solution 2 is shit, because it would be a kick into the ass for every casual gamer, and 2. why erase totaly a feature of the game, when the system around it only needs an improvement and the rest lies then in the mentality of each player, if the players decide to play with 7 hero parties, or want to search a very active PvE guild to play in future stuff with guild mates ...

So, and now sry that I wrote this novel here, but I could had wrote most of it in the other petetion, when it wouldn't be closed -.-

legion_rat · Sep 27, 2007, 11:15 AM // 11:15

Rurik,

I still look back and smile as a watched you die in the shiverpeaks. I have never lead the party on that mission because I refuse to run out into the snow screaming "RURIK NO!" I am sorry if you feel that henches have been neglected. I still take them with me to fill in for the now, enedangered good players that are actually looking for a group for quests. That is something I would like to see saved.

Please Please anet hear my cry. Bring back the good players that want to group. But since you cant do that because people have gotten tired of rage quiters, idiots that aggro worse than alesias bald self, people insulting other players, drawing penises and swatsticas on the compass, people talking about how cool the drugs they are on are, the talk in town of "any real girls wanna 'talk'

" and other wonderful things.

So to combat this my old fried...i mean friend rurik, we talk heros and henches. Or if we are lucky we have at least one friend who can take heros and we dont have to take any henches at all. Henches much like your bar-b-qued girlfriend are a thing of the past. Now if only anet would come to grips with the loss, and move through the other stages of grief.

thank you for your time dead...erm dear prince,

~The Rat~

gremlin · Sep 27, 2007, 11:23 AM // 11:23

If I have learned anything on the forums its this.

1 everything could be solved says the poster if only arenanet changed the game to suit my ideal.
Yes and the few thousand other requests to change the game many of them mutually exclusive.

2 five people have replied aggreeing to my idea ergo the majority of players want it.
And the other threads giving the opposite view also replied to by five people means the majority don't want it.

SO
please
Be polite not abusive, be constructive not destructive.

Ask for things that you want added or offered as an option ie 7 heroes etc.

But never ask for something to be removed, your rights do not supercede those of other players.
Never did and never will.

At the end of the day if it's that bad an experience put the game back in the box and play something else.

respectfully
David

$neekie · Sep 27, 2007, 11:32 AM // 11:32

I cant really make my mind up on this subject, im a casual player. Still with 1 main character(just started another 1 from proph). I dont even have the skills to equiped, a mesmer,monk,ect, outside the basicskills you get with them. Nevermid the cost of giving them weapons ect, wich i did for the 3 first ones(and was a pain). And i just like PUGs, even failing ones(i never leave, leaver are wimps). So for me personally the heroes arnt much better then hench(they even listen less then hench,stupid midget monk).

On the other hand, there are a lot of places/missions ,like some already said, that just dont have any pugs forming. So heroes there with the better armor and some control over there skills, are a better alternitive then henchies

Heroes are ok, but not 7......GW is more and more like a single player game as it is..........pugs is what made me buy the game.

mzzls

ps maybe time to join a guild

Holly Herro · Sep 27, 2007, 11:52 AM // 11:52

I can't make my mind up either.

I used to love this game with only the tyrian continent.

PuGs everywhere, had fun with groups and stuff.. now it's all lonely :'(

But, then again, there's not always people for missions. So that's a good reason to keep the heroes since the henchies arn't too good mid game (Maguuma Jungles/Desert)

So, in conclusion.

/signed AND /notsigned

the_jos · Sep 27, 2007, 12:28 PM // 12:28

Oh, I liked arguing in the other thread, so I might just start here also.
A-net implemented heroes for a reason.

In prophecies, life was easy. Everyone was in one game and had to follow the same storyline (well, shortcut Beacon's -> Droks).
So teaming up with others was not that hard.
Along came Factions.
Factions was good, but caused a little problem.
The storyline was split, people were able to complete the game and skip parts of the game. Meaning less players in certain mission outposts.
At the same time, some of those missions became a pain for the less experienced player. So they got stuck at Eternal Grove or Hatchery.
Unwaking Waters was deserted quite fast after release.
At the same time, people were also playing Prophecies. Meaning people are also split on two continents.

<skip very important 'feature' introduction for now>

Then came Nightfall.
People on three continents. Again a split storyline, but with added heroes to make teaming easier.
Instead of several humans + hench it was now possible to team up with one other player and get a very decent team build.
So people would not suffer from abandoned outposts as much as Factions.

So far so good, in my opinion the added 3 heroes add value to team up fairly easy and get a decent team.

Say hello to EotN, more content, more heroes.

<back to the very important 'feature' introduction>

A-net somehow decided it was time to introduce (PvE) titles to the game.
Not only are people on four 'continents' of which three have split storylines.
They are also there to play the missions twice (normal and hard mode).
And they need to vanquish.
And they need to hunt skills, hunt chest, explore, get kurz/lux/norn/asura/vanguard/dwarven points, get *add whatever title possible*. Oh, they want to play in dungeons too.

If there was a single introduction of a feature in the game that started killing PuGs, it was titles and not heroes.
People are not playing for fun anymore, but for grind and vanity glory.
They can't team up anymore with others because time they spend having fun is not spend on grinding the titles.

Now take this my guild (about 25 people online on average evening).
If I go there asking "who's up for vanquishing Snake's" I will get about the following responces:
1 or 2 members: count me in.
Several: been there, done that
Several: I'm busy with ..... (add title thing, mission/vanquish or dungeon here)
Several: takes too long/no time
Several: not interested in vanquishing

If I ask "who's up for vanquish Snake's next Friday evening time X" I probably have at least 4/5 human players, with a little luck 8 or more.
Meaning the interest to do those things is there, but there is no way to team up quick anymore, because everyone is busy doing whatever they do.

Now take that to PuG teams.
There might be plenty of people that want to vanquish Snake's.
But where do they team up? Rancor? Deldrimor War Camp?
And when? Going to Camp Rancor and screaming "lfp vanquish Snake's" it's going to take a very long time before you have even 4 people together.

How do heroes fit in this picture?
When I yell in Rancor and find one human player, we can set up a team that is able to vanquish. It's also very possible with H&H, but it's more fun with human players. With a human player that also has heroes, it's possible to set up a team better for that particular situation.
And instead of waiting a long time to get players (sounds almost like Jade Quarry) it's possible to get started in a reasonable amount of time.
Since time is limited for most players and time spend waiting is time not grinded for titles, this became important.

In the early days I did not mind waiting for a PuG to form at ToPK for half an hour or more.
Now I still don't mind, but in the back of my head I know I could have done X to get closer to title Y in that same time.
A lot of people would choose to do that X instead of waiting for a complete group to form.

draxynnic · Sep 27, 2007, 02:28 PM // 14:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by legion_rat

Henches much like your bar-b-qued girlfriend are a thing of the past.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeron Draxynnus

You MONSTER! Show some respect for the dead! *Conjure Nightmare*

Errmn... sorry about that. Six years and she still holds a grudge over that, and she kinda took control for a moment there...

Deadlyjunk · Sep 27, 2007, 03:18 PM // 15:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by R!ghteous Ind!gnation

Nice attempt at an RPGish post OP. Very cute, but on to business:

Heros allow players to accomplish goals that were previously unattainable using henchmen. They add depth to the players understanding of the knowledge of the various classes and as such i would like to promote my own thread.... I you would like to have the OPTION of having 7 heros in a party available to you please give your comments here:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10202643

Your thread got served.
Have a nice day indeed